Is it just me?

oh yeah, i didn't mean to imply i never made posts that were fanatical, i'm sure in the height of my involvement in the SG bbs i probably was just as protective of Darren in my own way lol And you aren't alone in being argumentative, i've certainly been told i never know when to shut up *g* As well, i've pissed off people for ages for doing too much sitting on the fence, according to them *chuckle* It's always been interesting times, that's how we live with flair! [img]wink.gif[/img]

You are right that second chances are what allow people and communities to grow and learn. By all means, call people on when they are making mistakes or being inappropriate but it shouldn't mean an automatic outcasting *s*

I think Dyan and Steen summed it all up nicely.

Its exactly how I felt at the time.

I mean people simply cant state whether we post here or the anti or anywhere that we havent been supportive fans of Darren and his music. We are still around and in this fickle business of music and being a fan thats a pretty damm good thing.

Re the meeting Darren and happiness encounters. I think most people are genuinely happy when other genuine fans get a moment with Darren. I think its when who is or isnt in favour is manipulated by other fans(but thats a whole other rant).

I think what gets forgotten in the whole breakup saga was there wasn't only Darren and us there was Daniel as well. He is like the forgotten person in it all. I think at times peoples defence of Daniel got taken as attacking Darren. There was a lot of hurt and anger and denial and depression and bargaining LOL that needed to be spoken about, but the general "vibe" I did get was that everyone was suppose to move forward with Darren cause at least we still had him. Yes we did have him, but the things he was saying weren't making any sense to me. Plus to me personally Spin was something to be questioned. Just because he irritated, annoyed, frustrated and pissed me off no end , doesnt mean I still didnt love the guy.

I guess just like Darren stepped back from fan interaction, fans stepped back from Darren interaction. Maybe it was all a natural evolution.


Kat

My memory of the splt was not that there was a lot of love and acceptance. I remember things being very divided. If I had been in Darren's shoes and had been hoping for acceptance and understanding, I don't think I would have felt it on the boards. From some fans..yes but it was a pretty ugly board for awhile there.

But I guess we all perceive things differently...who knows how he perceived things but I suspect things that happened then shaped the way things are today.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Dyan:

If people hadn't cared about Darren, then they wouldn't have been so hurt by how things were handled. I just wish in retrospect that had been better understood by all involved at the time.

But then, call me weird, but I have always believed that it is perfectly possible to accept, support and love someone .... yes, unconditionally accept and love ...... and at the same time dislike or disapprove of something they might do or say. I can be flat out furious at someone, but that never changes my feelings toward them.

So if Darren was looking to his fans for a sort of love and acceptance, he only had to see what was right there. Nothing was wanted in return. Nothing was expected or asked. But I know it was there. Even when things seemed at their worst.

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<font size="3" face="Tempus sans ITC, Papyrus,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Honestly?
At the time of the split .. and for weeks afterwards... if you looked at the forums you would not have found love and acceptance.

Don't forget: everyone involved was very hurt and felt completely misunderstood.... absolutely nobody would have been able to keep the emotional distance to see where the other side was really coming from.
I think maybe they should have shut the forums down to keep us from writing down our thoughts on the split.
I'm sure things would be much better now.

Quote:

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Originally posted by sunhawk:

I would just like to clarify the two instances that Nic refered to, just because i was closely involved with them. I am not sure what special treatment you are refering to with Caedn at a show, the closest i can think of is the time she was allowed inside the MuchMusic studio for one of Darren's appearances and that was a thank you for her work as a moderator. As for Dyan's mention on TV, that was actually the work of Caedn, myself and a number of other SG BBSers who arranged to ask Darren if he could show his feet to Dyan, it was all part of a bbs joke at the time about seeing Naked Hayes Feet LOL

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<font size="3" face="Tempus sans ITC, Papyrus,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, that's what I meant.

Quote:

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I can't really comment on the change of mentioning fans by Darren because, to me, there has always been the same amount of support and jealousy towards fans who get mentioned.

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<font size="3" face="Tempus sans ITC, Papyrus,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">See, I can still remember when everyone was pleased to see another picture of someone who met Darren... and everyone was thrilled to see a friend's name mentioned in one of Leo's diary.
That all changed to the point where people wouldn't talk about their encounters anymore for fear of attacks.

This discussion has been amazingly interesting, because I feel that we (not just here "we collective", but as Dyan said on other boards/places "we everyone") have started down the road of a change for the better, with understanding.

I'm not saying that in the future of Darren's career and community, everything will be completley happy joy, but we seem to be acquiring the tools to deal with the tough stuff.

I can't see the change happening immediatly, but we have the seeds here of "old timers" digging through quite a few years of crap, and still coming out the other side - older, wiser, but still surviving.

And those are the emotional tools that allow us to deal with any new DH situation that crops up. Sure, we might flip our lids from time to time, but at least we have this understanding.

Amazing what a bit of time and perspective can achieve...

I guess that maybe it depends on what we want to see. Nic, everything you say has truth to it. So does what Marilu has said. However, what Steen, I and others say is also true.

The support was there. It still is. So is/was hurt and anger. I think the question is whether we (and Darren) are willing to allow for both truthes or only see the one that fits our point of view.

<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ March 02, 2005 09:45 PM: Message edited by: Dyan ]</font>

<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ March 03, 2005 05:43 AM: Message edited by: Kattitude ]</font>

Mlue we would never boot you out. Your opinions and perspective are great. I have always found your posts here and on sony to come from a levelheaded perspective.YOu have never been "postive" just for the saje of it. You seem to take in what is said and thoughtfully put your perspective to it. As you said you saw the whole thing differently. Its always good to see that there may of been other ways to see it and other possibilities.

As you say everyones perspective of the event is different. We cant understand how DH felt at the time of the split. He may of had a heap of his own emotions to deal with thus couldnt deal with what was happening within the fanbase. I guess if we felt the way we felt.. we would have to try and understand how he felt.

It was a messy time and lots of things have and had to be sorted through all round. I agree with you on the fan treatment thing you may have a point there. Darrens interaction with the people I may not choose to like, may of been a completley different experience to mine. He can only go on what he and his people feel and say.

I guess even if he didnt feel the love it was there. The dissapointment we felt could only be measured by the love we had.

Kat

I agree Dyan...I think what everyone has said is true in some way because it is how they perceived things. I'm not so sure it is necessarily about what we want to see just how we see things.

I agree actions count but the problem is that everybody perceives actions differently. The recipient of any message and what they bring to hearing or reading that message is just as much a part of communication as the actual message. That is why everybody can hear or read or see the exact same things but all take away something different.

So...I guess what I'm trying to say is messages are perhaps never clear even if they seem clear to oneself.

I always feel a little out of place in these discussions because I think perhaps I sound like some fanatical fan who thinks Darren & company can do no wrong but that's not the case. I just see all of this different. It's not that I have some rose colored glasses of positivity going on because I don't and honestly those rose colored glasses drive me crazy. But I have watched many battles in these communities, participated in some, seen the complaints and it is not that I don't get where people are coming from...I do. I just see it all different.

When it comes to the "chosen" fans, I think he just sees them in a completely different perspective than perhaps other fans do. To me this is just normal. I don't think it makes him wrong. I don't think it means anybody else is wrong. I don't think it means he needs to see it in our light. It just means that everybody has had different experiences.

I think it happens in every day life. I may see a person one way because of things I know about them while someone else may see them completely different because of their own experiences. Even if I know all those other facts from the other person's experience, I still may not come to the same conclusions because of my own experiences. My own experiences may make me interpret all of the facts completely differently than someone else.

With Dyan's dismissal as mod....I agree...it was a cold chicken way to handle things. I also agree with Dyan that she was doomed from the start because she was too controversial and I think also just because of the timing. And I think that she did a lot of very positive things for the board in her stint as a mod.

But even in that, it doesn't send to me a message that there is an expectation that people must be 100% supportive or positive. That might be what some people take from it, but others may take something else. And what the message actually was intended to mean maybe completely different than what any of us got. I'm not sure anybody is wrong.

ok...so that's enough of a ramble...just trying to explain where I'm coming from.